Monday, March 02, 2020
Sunday, March 01, 2020
Re: HaRav Kanievsky rules to vote in WZC . Rabbi Edelstein agrees. See short video in Vosisnaies by Rav Shmuel Kamenetsky
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Lichvod Rabbi Platnick et al
Rabbi Pesach Lerner of Eretz HaKodesh sent me this link from Matzav.com a few days ago. Note that it is no longer valid. However a new link is now on Matzav.com that seems to tell a very different story. What is the Emes?
Why would Rav Kamenetsky davka get involved in Israeli politics and not American politics when his position has always been for the Rabbonim in Eretz Yisroel should rule on issues re Eretz Yisroel and MGH in Chutz LeAretz doesn't take a stand. Many times we asked him to make such rulings and he refrained.
Fyi
Video no longer available
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Also this Video of Rav Kamenetsky speaking on Vosisnaies was removed today as well. I did see it this morning.
Possibly if what you are saying is correct that Rav Kamenetsky supports voting in EY why wouldn't he publicize his support for voting in WZC as well if he indeed supports it. A private voice recording a week ago that appeared in Vosisnaies clearly confirms his dupport about the WZO elections.
However it was a recording of a Sheila asked of him by an individual in EY and it's not clear if Rav Kamenetsky knew he was being recorded and/or if he wanted the recording publicized.
We need a public statement of Rav Kamenetsky clarifying his position that he was Misyaetz with HaRav Kanievsky who supported Rav Brudnys and his position re WZO that yes to vote in Chutz LeAretz!
Rav Brudnys video endorsing voting in WZC is on YouTube so it can't be removed by a news channel.
Shmuel Keonig spoke to Rav Kamenetsky directly today and he confirmed that he endorses voting in the WZC election and never retracted!
On Sun, Mar 1, 2020, 12:13 PM aclgut <aclgut@yahoo.com> wrote:
Please see the link below. The video of Rav Rav Kamenetsky is about voting in the general election not WZO-------- Original message --------From: Robin Ticker <faigerayzel@gmail.com>Date: 3/1/20 9:15 AM (GMT-05:00)To: Rabbi Lemberger <slemberger@bmg.edu>, HaRav Aharon Kotler <akotler@bmg.edu>Cc: Shmuel Koenig <shmuelkoenig@verizon.net>, ACLGUT@yahoo.com, Yaniv Meirov <yanivmeirov@gmail.com>, eretzhakodeshwzo@gmail.com, Rabbi Feldman <RAF@nirc.edu>, Rabbi Shmuel Kamenetsky <talmudicalyeshiva@yahoo.com>, Odeleya Jacobs <odel216@aol.com>, Caren May <drivewithcaren@gmail.com>, Nessim and Lynne Tammam <hashoah@hotmail.com>Subject: Re: HaRav Kanievsky rules to vote in WZC . Rabbi Edelstein agrees. See short video in Vosisnaies by Rav Shmuel KamenetskyOn Sun, Mar 1, 2020, 12:32 AM Robin Ticker <faigerayzel@gmail.com> wrote:Lichvod Rabbi Lemberger and Rabbi Aharon Kotler, SHLITA amvshPlease show Rabbi Malkiel Kotler Arzi and the HATIKVAH Slate.Torah Jews were passive about claiming Eretz Yisroel before WWII.In 1948 Torah Judaism was passive and allowed the secular Zionists, the minority of Jews in the world to decide the agenda. Unfortunately the majority of Jewry, 6 million Kedoshim perished in the Holocaust.In 1937 the majority of Moetzet Gedolei HaTorah came up with a resolution that supported a Jewish State of Israel based on Torah.If we stand at the side and not become involved, who can we blame other than ourselves if Secular Jews set the agenda?כנסי' מועצת גדולי התורה במריינבד בעברית The Knessiah Gedolah of Marienbad. Moetzet Gedolei Hatorah discussion re: A Jewish State: YES or NO? Yes for Jewish State!---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Robin Ticker <faigerayzel@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, Feb 29, 2020, 11:33 PM
Subject: Re WZC as per conversation with Shmuel Koenig
To: <ACLGUT@yahoo.com>
Cc: Shmuel Koenig <shmuelkoenig@verizon.net>, Rabbi Feldman <RAF@nirc.edu>, Rabbi Shmuel Kamenetsky <talmudicalyeshiva@yahoo.com>, <eretzhakodeshwzo@gmail.com>, Odeleya Jacobs <odel216@aol.com>, Yaniv Meirov <yanivmeirov@gmail.com>Feb 28, 2020Re: Rav Feldman"s Psak not to vote in the WZC? Maybe reading the platform of ARZA and HATIKVAH will convince Rabbi Feldman what's at stake.https://shemittahrediscovered.blogspot.com/2020/02/re-rav-feldmans-psak-not-to-vote-in-wzc.html?m=1..Thursday, January 23, 2020Fwd: Vote Now to Protect the Kedusha of Eretz Yisrael! Rabbi Brudny encouraging Torah Jews to vote in the WZO Congresshttps://shemittahrediscovered.blogspot.com/2020/01/fwd-vote-now-to-protect-kedusha-of.html?m=1Saturday, January 18, 2020Eretz HaKodesh | Vote to Protect Kedusha and Mesorah in Eretz Yisrael fyiNumerous Rabbanim, including HaRav Yitzchak Berkowitz and HaRav Asher Weiss of Yerushalayim, and HaRav Elya Brudny of New York, feel there is much merit in this endeavor and are encouraging us in our efforts.
Rav Kanievsky said Voting for Ben Gvir is a vote of madness. Was Rabbi Kanievsky fully informed about Duma????? This needs to be clarified! Update: 8:30 PM – Ben-Gvir will not be dropping out of the elections.
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Update: Ben Gvir not to drop out of race
https://www.jewishpress.com/news/politics/speculation-ben-gvir-to-stage-last-minute-drop-save-80000-rightwing-votes/2020/03/01/"...Meanwhile, Rabbi Chaim Kanievsky, one of the most important Haredi poskim, on Sunday morning called on his followers not to vote for Ben-Gvir, because, as he put it: "Voting for him would be an act of madness.""
There is reason to believe that Rav Kanievsky isn't always given the whole story.
Who misled Rav Kanievsky
HaRav Kanievsky rules to vote in WZC. BOMBSHELL: Rabbi Shmuel Kamenetsky Releases Video To VOTE In WZO;
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BOMBSHELL: HaRav Shmuel Kamenetsky Releases Video To VOTE In WZO;
Friday, February 28, 2020
Re: Rav Feldman"s Psak not to vote in the WZC? Maybe reading the platform of ARZA and HATIKVAH will convince Rabbi Feldman what's at stake.
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To Those Who Wonder Why Should We Vote in the WZC Elections...Introducing ARZA Slate: Association of Reform Zionists of America Equality. Democracy. Pluralism. Israel and HATIKVAH: Progressive Israel Slate. We are Hope - We are the Progressive Israel Slate
Please open and print the following link for Rabbonim like HaRav Feldman who are against voting in the WZC yet perhaps are unfamiliar with these anti Torah Platforms and what's at stake and may not realize the full repercussions of such a Psak .
FYI The Jerusalem Program Statement
"Strengthening Israel as a Jewish, Zionist and democratic state and shaping it as an exemplary society with a unique moral and spiritual character, marked by mutual respect for the multi-faceted Jewish people, rooted in the vision of the prophets, striving for peace and contributing to the betterment of the world."
As you can see from ARZA and HATIKVAH in the above link, they distort the Jerusalem Program statement to redefine Judaism to fit their progressive agenda. It is quite obvious that the "Vision of the Prophets" is diametrically opposed to the vision of the HaTikvah party.
By Torah Jews rejecting "Zionism", and the WZC election, we actually encourage and allow "Secular Zionism" to hijack true Zionism and replace Torah values with their own values.
Rather than not allowing this to happen by standing strong and educating naive and indoctrinated Jews to the Truth of our Heritage, we allow the Sitra Acher to misrepresent Zionism and the Jewish people.
For thousands of years Jews pray daily for the return to Zion. If Zionism was an evil thing surely we would not include it in our prayers.
Being a "Jewish Democratic State" is an oxymoron and is self contradictory statement when you take Democracy to an extreme as they have done. Yes there is Democracy within Judaism as the majority rules.... except when it's for evil.
If they are purely Democratic as per their terms, then they can simply vote out being a Jewish State thereby possibly voting in a totalitarian State that takes away their democracy leaving them with nothing but tyranny.
Rabbi Shmuel Kamenetsky of Phildelphia Yeshiva had recently taken the same position as Rabbi Brudny to support voting in the WZC for Eretz HaKodesh. A viral phone recording has circulated that backs this up.
On Tue, Feb 25, 2020, 9:57 PM Robin Ticker <faigerayzel@gmail.com> wrote:
Fyi
The TEXT of the letter to Rav Feldman asking whether to vote in the WZC election and the Rav's reply:Dear Rav Feldman,Does the Rosh Yeshiva have an opinion regarding whether one should vote in the WZO election? In order to vote one has to affirm in their belief of the "Jerusalem Program" which is the official platform of the World Zionist Organization.Sincerely,M. S.Miami Beach FLRav Feldman's reply"My opinion is that a Jew is forbidden to declare that he is a member or ascribes to a program of an organization whose platform fails to recognize that the Jewish nation is a nation which received the Torah at Sinai. Such a Declaration is a Chilul Hashem (Desecration of G-d's Name) and may not be made no matter what material or spiritual benefits will thereby accrue. "With deep respect,Aharon Feldman
fyi: Video of haRav Brudny saying it's not a problem. This was addressed years ago and voting in the WZC is no different than Israeli elections of today that include parties like UTJ.https://drive.google.com/.../0B86sGl9yfinjbE0wX29.../view... --
My comments to Rabbi Feldman
Dear Rabbi Feldman
FYI:
The Jerusalem Program
Please note the language:
rooted in the vision of the prophets
Rav Feldman, Isn't this an affirmation of משה קבל תורה מסיני?
The hope is that enough Yirei Shamayim will vote in this WZC election, and there are enough Torah slates among the 15 slates that "recognize that the Jewish nation is a nation which received the Torah at Sinai".
By democratically voting for a Jewish and Torah slate, this will change the demographics of the WZC. Surely, with a majority of members who are Masorati, clarity can be inserted into the official platform of the Jerusalem Program to spell out what probably was the initial intention of the writers.
It is clear the authors of the Jerusalem Platform want Jewish continuity. Why do we assume otherwise?
FYI
"The JERUSALEM PROGRAM is the official platform of the WORLD ZIONIST ORGANIZATION and the global Zionist movement, having been most recently amended and adopted in June 2004, as the successor statement to the "Basel Program" of 1897 adopted at the First Zionist Congress convened by Theodor Herzl. The Jerusalem Program states that: Zionism, the national liberation movement of the Jewish people, brought about the establishment of the State of Israel, and views a Jewish, Zionist, democratic and secure State of Israel to be the expression of the common responsibility of the Jewish people for its continuity and future."
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