In a message dated 12/27/2006 5:30:02 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, firstname.lastname@example.org writes:
here you can read the true reality that natire karte presented in Iran http://www.nkusa.org/activities/Conferences/2006Dec12Iran.cfm
Below are my comments highlighted in orange The following is the speech written by Yisroel Feldman irepresenting Neturei Karta at the Conference in Iran with my commentary..
also look on this web site
Orthodox Jewish Attitude to the Holocaust(This is not the Orthodox Jewish Attitude. It is the attitude of a fringe minority.)
|Talk prepared by Rabbi Yisroel Feldman of Neturei Karta International to be delivered at the International Conference to review the Holocaust, December 11-12, in Tehran, Iran|
With praise to the Almighty may my words find favor in His eyes. Nice beginning
I want to begin with gratitude and great respect to the Iranian government in general and to the Honorable Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Khamenei and to His Excellency, President Mahmoud Ahmadinegad. Lo Sichanem
Much has and will be said at this conference concerning the debate of European Jewry during the Second World War. I am neither a scientist nor a professional historian and am not capable of responding to many of the questions discussed here.
What I propose to do though, is to speak about the morality of what happened to European Jewry and the morality of using their fate as an explanation for other political and cultural activities.
No matter how we may debate some of the details of what was done to the Jews of Europe there is no doubt that they were treated brutally and that this brutality included all men, women and children. The Jews were physically attacked and murdered. Their possessions and homes were taken. They were shipped across Europe like animals jammed into cattle cars with little or no food and water. Millions died. And many of these were defenseless women and children. These are facts. The worldwide Jewish community is by and large descendents of those who survived this horrible hell.
It would probably lend much credibility to those who wish to study the destruction of European Jewry if they would clearly condemn these actions committed during the holocaust. There is no moral justification for what was done. Fine so far
However, there is also no moral justification for using these events to dispossess and occupy Look at the first Rashi of Beraishis. Hashem gave the Land of Israel first to the Canaanites. He then took it away and gave it to the seed of Avraham Yitzchok and Yaakov. The Canaanites are descendant of CHam who was cursed to be the slave of Shem. The ownership of a slave belongs to its Master. So G-d had a Master Plan all along. another people who have nothing whatsoever to do with what was done in Europe. Let Europe make amends for what took place if they so desire, not the Palestinians. The Palestinians express kinship and admiration for the atrocities and the Nazi regime. How can you ignore this minor detail?
Plus, it is our belief that it is not the appropriate role for Jews when they live in exile amongst the nations to adopt any position of antagonism towards any other peoples or nations. Why is desiring to keep Mitzvot Teluyot Baaretz a position of antagonism to other people. Ki Ner Mitzva VeTorah Ohr. To get light you need a candle. You would be foolish to destroy the candle or the lanturn if you wished to create light. One can only keep the Mitzvoth Teluyot Baaretz such as Leqet, Shikcha, Peah, Teruma, Shemittah etc if they have the material, the actual parcel of Land.
My husbands family is secular. They had a weekend Bar Mitzva in a Hotel. We didn't attend because even with Kosher food there was no way we could keep Shabbos. We weren't being hostile as they interpreted our actions but simply attempting to keep the sanctity of the Shabbos. We believe that Jews are called upon to lead by example by serving as a positive role model for all of mankind, not as dictators of public policy. Why is claiming something that is in your stewardship, what is entrusted to you in order that you follow the precepts and keep its laws interpreted as being dictators of public policy? Zionism violated many tenets of the Jewish faith. Are you referring to the State of Israel established in 1948. If so then be more specific. I define Zionism as the desire to live in Eretz Yisroel and keep the Mitzvoth. This has been our yearning for 2000 years. I would not use the terminology Zionism because according to my definition of Zionism I imagine you would be included. And It sought to deny the metaphysical reality of Jewish exile and the Divine command that we live at peace with other peoples. According to your opinion the metaphysical reality is that we are in Galus forever or until Moshiach is revealed. The reality is, that we are in Galus a Jewish exile. You seem to believe that Jewish Sovereignty is not allowed until the Moshiach is revealed. Does that mean also that we are not allowed to keep certain Mitzvoth until Moshiach is revealed. Does it mean that we take away Mitzvoth of the Torah because Moshiach hasn't been revealed? Where does it say in the Torah that choosing and picking Mitzvoth are allowed? Of course if we are physically unable then we have no choice. If we don't have a right hand we will put on Tefillin on the left hand. Would we purposely cut off our right hand so that we can observe Tefillin on the Left Hand? Its cruelty towards the Palestinian was and is notorious. The Torah doesn't always sound very diplomatic and peaceful. In fact there are many instances where is sounds downright cruel. One of the places that this is so is with some of the Canaanite Nations. G-d commands that they be wiped out, men women and children and the spoils are cherem. The Zionists were not cruel enough. They had to expel the Palestinians and cut down their places of worship and Idolatry. When the Nation of Israel continued to disobey G-ds commands, the curses happened and the Nations oppressed them and did to the people of Israel what the people of Israel should have done first to them. The Torah is not democracy.The founder of Zionism, Theodore Herzl, wrote in his diary that he felt the existence of anti-Semitism was a healthy thing because this would make Jews mistrust the other nations of the world and come running to the state he wanted to create for them.This was the unfortunate reality. I wouldn't call it healthy however. It is unfortunate that they don't cometo Eretz Yisroel for the purpose to keep the Mitzvoth Teluyot Baaretz w/o progroms and antisemitism. I agree that the secular aspect of the establishment of the State of Israel is a deep flaw that is causing a crack in the foundations of the State of Israel. I see that to replace the void of the State, can only be a Jewish Sovereignty that used Torah and Mitzvoth as its modus operandes. Until Dovid Hamelech there was no King that Hashem really annointed happily. Shaul was not the ideal. Yet, Bnei Yisroel were supposed to live on the Land and keep the Mitzvoth. He saw fit to even cultivate this anti-Semitism and some of the Zionist leaders refused to participate in attempts to rescue European Jews from the horrors of the inferno of Europe because it suited their own purposes to do so. If this is true it is a crime of the highest degree.
The advent of Zionist ideology, even before the creation of the state, met with tremendous opposition from great Jewish leaders who saw in Zionism two major problems: One, that the Jewish people had been commanded not to try and leave exile by force, but rather to live peacefully as subservient loyal citizens wherever they would reside. Can you quote reference to this commandment? Does Rambam mention it in Sefer Hamitzvoth? And secondly, that we had similarly been forbidden from assuming ownership of the land. That's easily resolved. Simply keep the Mitzvah of Shemittah. By allowing the fields to lie fallow, you declare that the Land returns to its rightful owner G-D. But in order to keep Shemittah you still need sovereingty on parcels of Land. That these things have come to pass and that they have been achieved through the wide scale oppression of another nation is absolutely in dissonance with Jewish faith and law. But that is Torah and the problem is that we didn't kick out and destroy the other nations when they refuse to accept the Sovereignty of Am Yisroel and accept the Torah and our Biblical Mandate. The great Rabbis who witnessed the birth of Zionism predicted that this movement would bring terrible catastrophes upon the Holy Land and upon the world, and many refer to this development as the foremost reason for the holocaust itself. Did they predict the tremendous Baal Teshuva Movement as well especially in the Yeshivoth established in Eretz Yisroel?. The Rabbis saw Zionism as a horribly rebellious phenomenon and felt that by embracing Zionism the Jewish people was invoking the Divine wrath Maybe they were simply referring to the secular aspect of Zionism that rejected parts of the Torah e.g. Kashrus, Shabbos etc.. However, the Neturei Karta is rejecting Eretz Yisroel specifically the Mitzvoth that are dependant on the Land which also in my opinion may invoke Divine wrath since that too is rejecting Mitzvoth of the Torah albeit different Mitzvoth then the secular Jews., and in fact, in our time, it is clear that Zionism has created untold tragedy. It first and firstmost created a working infastructurefffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffThroughout the centuries Jew and Muslim lived side by side amicably, but those times predated the Zionist era. The situation is such that we need a miraculous salvation from what Zionism has wrought.
What is most important, though, is that when approaching the all-important topics of Zionism and the holocaust that we keep our balance and moral clarity. What was done to the Jews and to other European peoples, such as the Poles and Gypsies, was a great evil. If its parameters need to be explored, let them be freely explored, but all the while realizing that we are exploring the reality of an evil deed. This is the delicate clarity that is so needed when approaching this sensitive issue.
Similarly, when studying Zionism we need to always distinguish between Zionism and Judaism. Between those caught in its grasps and those actively committing acts of Zionist aggression; If Judaism includes Mitzvoth Teluyot Baaretz, then. Zionism in its proper form is yearning and desire to keep these Mitzvoth that are dependant on the land. Between Torah True Jews and those who have strayed from our faith and traditions;
These are the distinctions that need go forth from this conference. They will lend its deliberations credibility and add to the ultimate goal of peace between peoples, the eradication of all cruelty, and the overall moral and Divine agenda of all mankind. Your agenda, is in direct conflict with the agenda of the Almighty Who at times advocates cruelty. If you,those that support Ahmad....and are kind to the cruel then one day you will be cruel to the kind.
May G-d be with you.Thank you. I took that blessing personally. It's mutually exclusive for you to talk both to me as well as to ahmedinojad. If G-d is with him then G-d is against me and my fellow Jew. You can not have it both ways.