Tuesday, July 19, 2011

Fwd: Sovereignty Conference - Did you register yet? My comments

Dear List, amv"sh
The Jewish People want clarity from our Spiritual Leaders!   Palestinian State vs Jewish Homeland.   What do the Jews CHOOSE?  I haven't heard clarity from Moetzet Gedolei Hatorah.   Where is the public discourse?  The Religious, Chareidi Jews are confused.  Jews in Brooklyn are confused.  AmericanYeshiva boys studying in Eretz Yisroel are confused as per any obligation to join the army to defend Eretz Yisroel because it is a Milchemet Mitzva or is it not relevant to their lives because they are Chareidi.
 Rav Shteinman says that it is forbidden to go to Kever Yosef because it's Pikuach Nefesh for Jews.http://matzav.com/rav-shteinman-those-who-go-to-kever-yosef-are-like-those-who-commit-suicide   (the PA is in charge of security and unless we coordinate beforehand with the IDF they justify gunning down Breslov Chasidim). 
Does that mean that living in Itamar is also dangerous. After all terrorists infiltrated Itamar (which overlooks Shchem, where Kever Yosef is found) and dismembered the Fogel baby's head among murdering the parents and other children. 
And if Jews leave Itamar chas vechalila, will Jews be more safe in Tel Aviv, Bnei Brak and Ben Gurion?
So what does Rav Shteinman and Rav Eliashiv choose?   A Jewish Homeland or a Palestinian State?   (It seems to me a Palestinian State but it's not clear) Rikki from Yated told me in the name of the Editor Rav Pinchus Lifshuts that there are two opinions.  My understanding from her that there is the opinion that Jews should be in Judea and Samaria and the opinion that Jews should not be in Judea and Samaria.  What is Rav Shteinman's opinion? What about Rav Eliashiv,  Maybe I didn't hear properly. You can call them up yourself and clarify.  Yated's telephone number in Monsey NY is 845-369-1600.  Since Yated does not want to take sides and be controversial they avoid articles promoting giving chizuk and support and/or twinning and fundraising for  Organizations, Yeshivoth and  communities in East Jerusalem, Judea and Samaria with their readership.  Most of their news items are eulogizing the Gedoilim that recently passed away. They endorse supporting Rubashkin and other worthy Tzedakos.  It is very difficult for emmisaries of Judea and Samaria and Har Habayit to get a nice reception or raise funds in Brooklyn and in the Chareidi world because they are not endorsed by members of Moetzet Gedolei Hatorah.
Surely now Yated as all the religious papers will focus on the gruesome details and discussions trying to find meaning of the murder of Leiby Kletzky z"l.  
But even in this Boro Park tragedy the question will be asked. Can this have been prevented?  When evil is staring you in the face and we  ignore the red flags and respond with solutions that do not address the threat, then evil will prevail.  Or is what happened something that G-d allowed to happen and there was nothing that could have been done to prevent it?
It all goes back to the Sin of the Spies.  The Three Weeks, Tisha Baav.
Caroline Glick says that choosing a Palestinian State means choosing our destruction. 
Moshe Dann says that choosing to annex Judea and Samaria is truth.
I say let us look at our Midrashic sources and see what choices we can offer the Palestinians of today.  It seems to me that if we allow them to stay in Judea and Samaria they must accept Jewish Sovereignty and the 7 Noahide Laws and then they have the rights of a Ger Toshav.  Israel must provide for their welfare.  Is this a solution of a radical right or is this the Torah solution ?
Let us refer to the book of Joshua and Judges. Here we find the narrative of the Israelites conquering the Promised Land. There is a sad and recurring story in the book of Judges. Unfortunately it is not fiction. It is a true story. G-d commands the Israelites to conquer the Land and the Canaanite Nations and all those that do not accept Israeli's Sovereignty and the 7 Noahide Laws were to be driven from the Land along with their idol worship and places of worship. The idol worshipers loved the horrible ceremonies, such as sacrificing children to the gods. (One can see much parallels to todays society to use Palestinian children as human shields and educate them to glorify Shahidism. It is consistent with this pagan philosophy to name schools after suicide martyrs. Go to PMW (Palestinian Media Watch )website to listen to Palestinian School Children singing patriotically and being trained to be shahid. Watch their version of Sesame STreet.

Going back to the Biblical Narrative in Joshua, the Canaanite nations did not choose to make peace and accept the 7 Noahide laws nor did they have any intention of leaving the beautiful land. According to the Little Midrash Says by Rabbi Moshe Weissman based on Midrashic sources (page 63), the only one of the seven nations that decided to move away from Eretz Canaan was the Girgashi. They all went to Africa. Hashem gave them a beautiful, new land in Africa as a reward for their leaving. In addition, the Givonim saw what happened to Sichon and Og and tricked the Israelites and pretended they wished to convert. They too were spared. The rest chose to fight.

When Joshua was 110 he gives his first speech. He assembled the Judges of the Sanhedrin, the Nesiim (leaders of the tribes) and as well as all of the Nation of Israel. He warns them. "You must continue to to drive away those Nations. Hashem will help you as He did until now. But if you begin to become friendly, with those nations, they will after a while teach you their evil ways and their idol worship. If you say "on the contrary, they will learn from US how to serve Hashem! Joshua answers that this is a mistaken idea. These nations will hurt and damage you like thorns that prick your body and eyes. In his last speech Joshua warns them again.

In the Book of Judges, the Tribe of Yehuda fights additional battles. They make a grave mistake by allowing Canaanites to stay in their portion. After conquering a mountain on their part of the land they began to attack the Canaanim who lived in the valley below. To their dismay they discovered that those Canaanites possessed iron chariots. In those times, iron chariots were the equivalent of modern powerful tanks or airplanes. (p13 Shoftim Littlel Midrash Says) The men of Yehudah had no iron chariots, They said, "it is useless for us to fight against an army that has iron chariots! We will all, G-d forbid be killed.

They lacked the proper trust in Hashem. Because of this, a number of Canaanim survived and remained in Shevet Yehuda's portion of the land. This was a serious sin. The men of shevet Yehuda transgressed Hashem's command to kill (or drive out) all the seven nations living in Eretz Canaan. This scenario of the Israelites falling spiritually has a direct correlation with their inability to drive out the Canaanite nations.

As soon as the Israelites began serving idols as a result from their association with the Idol Worshipers, they fell into the enemy's hand and in the face of disaster, Hashem who is forever merciful sends 12 great Judges to lead the people and lead them back to righteousness.

According to the Little Midrash Says: based on Midrashic sources, The Jews had several choices:

1. To drive them out of the land. or
2. To use them as servants, in which case the Canaanim would pay taxes and keep the seven Noahide Laws or:
3. if the Nations would not agree to either of the above choices, Bnai Yisrael had to destroy them completely.

Hashem commanded the Bnei Yisroel in the desert "Do not allow any of the seven nations to remain free men in Eretz Canaan?". What was the reason for this commandment?

These nations worshiped idols as mentioned before and had bad character traits like in the wicked city of Sdom who robbed and abused the poor.

it any wonder that the Palestinian refugees are still living in such horrid conditions after all these years.

They are trained to be wicked.

Here are some examples: What happens to naive Peace activists women as they enter Arab camps and villages fighting for Palestinian Rights? What happens to Jewish women that foolishly agree to a relationship with ARabs and are then are trapped in Arab Villages and need secretive operations to free them. What is the Sharia law regarding Palestinian women who do not submit to their husbands? Why are Palestinian children trained to be martyrs and suicide bombers. Why are they are trained to lie to the "infidels"?. 

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Women in Green <wfit2@womeningreen.org>
Date: Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 2:23 PM
Subject: Sovereignty Conference - Did you register yet?
To: wfit2 <wfit2@womeningreen.org>

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Dear Friends,

Two days to our conference in Hebron on the issue of "Applying
sovereignty over Judea and Samaria" and the response is thank G-d
overwhelming. If you plan on coming and need transportation from
Jerusalem, please call us to reserve seats on the buses. Lectures will
be in Hebrew with simultaneous translation into English.

The topic of the urgent need for  Israeli sovereignty in Judea and
Samaria is finally being raised in the media too.
See below for Caroline Glick's article appearing in today's Jerusalem Post.

Caroline Glick will be one of the speakers at our conference.
As she writes in her article:
"No, annexation won't be easy. But then again, the alternative is
national suicide."

Glick's article is being followed by an article by Moshe Dann that
appeared this week in the Jerusalem Post:

As Moshe Dann writes:
"The State of Israel, therefore, on behalf of the Jewish People, has
the obligation and responsibility to say the truth: Eretz Yisrael,
including Judea and Samaria, legitimately, legally and historically
belongs to the Jewish People; it always has and always will."

Looking forward to  see you all in Hevron at the conference- please
G-d Thursday July 21st starting at 5:00pm with as speakers MK Tzipi
Hotovely, MK Arieh Eldad, Caroline Glick, Yoram Ettinger, Prof. Rafi
Israeli, Eran Bar-Tal, Elaykim Haetzni and Dr Gabi Avital.

Details and exact schedule of the conference can be found on our
website: www.womeningreen.org


Nadia Matar and Yehudit Katsover
050-5500834     050-7161818


Our World: Israel's only two options
The Jewish state's choices are to either annex Judea and Samaria or be
destroyed by its neighbors.

Fatah leader Mahmoud Abbas is in Europe this week seeking to convince
the Spanish and Norwegian governments to support the Palestinian bid
to sidestep negotiations with Israel and have the UN General Assembly
recognize Palestinian sovereignty over Judea, Samaria and Jerusalem in
addition to Gaza.

The Palestinians know that without US support, their initiative will
fail to gain Security Council support and therefore have no legal
weight. But they believe that if they push hard enough, Israel's
control over these areas will eventually unravel and they will gain
control over them without ever accepting Israel's right to exist.

Fatah's UN gambit, along with its unity deal with Hamas, makes clear
that the time has come for Israel to finally face the facts: There are
only two realistic options for dealing with Judea and Samaria.

Either the Palestinians will take control of Judea and Samaria, or
Israel will annex them.

If the Palestinians take control, they will establish a terror state
in the areas, which – like their terror state in Gaza – will use its
territory as a starting point for continued war against Israel.

It isn't only Israel's experience with post-withdrawal Gaza and South
Lebanon that make it clear that a post-withdrawal
Palestinian-controlled Judea and Samaria will become a terror state.
The Palestinians themselves make no bones about this.

In a Palestinian public opinion survey released last week by The
Israel Project, 65 percent of Palestinians said they believe that they
should conduct negotiations with Israel. But before we get excited, we
need to read the fine print.

According to the survey, those two-thirds of Palestinians believe that
talks should not lead to the establishment of the State of Palestine
next to Israel and at peace with the Jewish state. They believe the
establishment of "Palestine" next to Israel should serve as a means
for continuing their war against Israel. The goal of that war is to
destroy what's left of Israel after the "peace" treaty and gobble it
into "Palestine."

That is, 66% of Palestinians believe "peace" talks with Israel should
be conducted in bad faith.

Moreover, three-quarters deny Jewish ties to Jerusalem, and 80%
support Islamic jihad against Jews as called for in the Hamas charter;
73% support the annihilation of the Jewish people as called for in the
Hamas charter on the basis of Islamic scripture.

As bad as Israel's experience with post-withdrawal Gaza and South
Lebanon has been, Israel's prospects with a post-withdrawal Judea and
Samaria will be far worse. It isn't simply that withdrawal will invite
aggression from Judea and Samaria. It will invite foreign Arab armies
to invade the rump Jewish state.

Unlike the post-withdrawal situation with Gaza and South Lebanon,
without Judea and Samaria, Israel would not have the territorial depth
and topographical advantage to defend itself from invasion from the

Moreover, the establishment of the second Palestinian terror state
after Gaza in Judea and Samaria would embolden some of Israel's Arab
citizens in the Galilee and the Negev as well as in Jaffa, Lod, Haifa
and beyond to escalate their already declared irredentist plans to
demand autonomy or unification with whatever Palestinian terror state
they choose.

Living under the constant threat of invasion from the east (and the
south, from a Muslim Brotherhood-controlled Egyptian army moving
through the Sinai and Gaza), Israel would likely be deterred from
taking concerted action against its treacherous Arab citizens.

As then-prime minister Ariel Sharon warned in 2001, the situation
would be analogous to the plight of Czechoslovakia in the 1930s. Just
as the Nazis deterred the Czech government from acting against its
traitorous German minority in the Sudetenland in the 1930s, so Arab
states (and a nuclear Iran), supporting the Palestinian terror states
in Judea and Samaria and in Gaza, would make it impossible for Israel
to enforce its sovereign rights on its remaining territory.

Israel's destruction would be all but preordained.

The second option is for Israel to annex Judea and Samaria, complete
with its hostile Arab population.

Absorbing the Arab population of Judea and Samaria would increase
Israel's Arab minority from 20% to 33% of the overall population. This
is true whether or not Israel grants them full citizenship with voting
rights or permanent residency without them.

Obviously such a scenario would present Israel with new and complex
legal, social and law enforcement challenges. But it would also
provide Israel with substantial advantages and opportunities.

Israel would have to consider its electoral laws and weigh the
prospect of moving from a proportional representation system to a
direct, district system. It would have to begin enforcing its laws
toward its Arab citizens in a manner identical to the way it enforces
its laws against its Jewish citizens. This includes everything from
administrative laws concerning building to criminal statutes related
to treason. It would have to ensure that Arab schoolchildren are no
longer indoctrinated to hate Jews, despite the fact that according to
the Israel Project survey, 53% of Palestinians support such
anti-Semitic indoctrination in the classroom.

These steps would be difficult to enact.

On the other side, annexing Judea and Samaria holds unmistakable
advantages for Israel. For instance, Israel would regain complete
military control over the areas. Israel ceded much of this control to
the PLO in 1996.

The Palestinian armies Israel agreed to allow the PLO to field have
played a central role in the Palestinian terror machine. They have
also played a key role in indoctrinating Palestinian society to seek
and work toward Israel's destruction. By bringing about the disbanding
of these terror forces, Israel would go a long way toward securing its
citizens from attack.

Furthermore, by asserting its sovereign rights to its heartland, for
the first time since 1967, Israel would be adopting an unambiguous
position around which its citizens and supporters could rally.
Annexation would also finally free Israel's politicians and diplomats
to tell the truth about the pathological nature of Palestinian
nationalism and about the rank hypocrisy and anti-Semitism at the
heart of much of the international Left's campaigns on behalf of the

No, annexation won't be easy. But then again, the alternative is
national suicide.

And again, these are the only options. Either the Palestinians form a
terror state from which it will wage war against the shrunken,
indefensible Jewish state, or Israel expands the size of the Jewish

Since 1967, Israel has refused to accept the fact that these are the
only two options available. Instead, successive governments and the
nation as a whole have set their hopes on imaginary third options. For
the Left, this option has been the fantasy of a two-state solution.
This "solution" involves the Palestinians controlling some or all of
the lands Israel took over from Jordan and Egypt in the Six Day War,
establishing a state, and all of us living happily ever after.

Given the Palestinians' overwhelming, consistent and violent support
for the destruction of Israel in any size, this leftist fantasy never
had a leg to stand on.

And since 1993, when the Rabin government adopted the Left's fantasy
as state policy, more than 2,000 Israelis have been killed in its

Not only has the Left's third option fantasy facilitated the
Palestinian terror machine's ability to kill Jews, it has empowered
their propaganda war against Israel.

Israel's pursuit of the nonexistent two-state solution has eroded its
own international position to a degree unprecedented in its history.

Last week's meeting of the so-called Middle East Quartet ended without
a final statement. It isn't that its members couldn't agree on the
need to establish "Palestine" in Judea and Samaria and Jerusalem. That
was a no-brainer. The Quartet members couldn't agree on the need to
accept the Jewish state. Russia reportedly rejected wording that would
have enjoined the Palestinians to accept the Jewish state's right to
exist as part of a peace treaty.

And this was eminently foreseeable. The unhinged two-state solution
makes Israel's legitimacy contingent on the establishment of a
Palestinian state. And it put the burden to establish a Palestinian
state on Israel.

Since everyone except Israel and the US always accepted the
establishment of a Palestinian state, and no one except Israel and the
US always accepted the existence of the Jewish state, by making its
own legitimacy dependent on Palestinian statehood, Israel started the
clock running on its own demonization.

The longer Israel allows its very right to exist to be contingent on
the establishment of another terror state committed to its
destruction, the less the nations of the world will feel obliged to
accept its right to exist.

As for the Right, its leaders have embraced imaginary third options of
their own. Either Jordan would come in and save us, or the
Palestinians would come to like us, or something.

The one thing that both the Left's fantasy option and the Right's
fantasy option share is their belief that the Palestinians or the
Arabs as a whole will eventually change. Both sides' imaginary third
options maintain that with sufficient inducements or time, the Arabs
will change their behavior and drop their goal of destroying Israel.

Our 44-year dalliance in fantasyland has not simply weakened us
militarily and diplomatically. It has torn us apart internally by
surrendering the debate to the two ideological fringes of the
political spectrum. Actually, to be precise, we have surrendered 99%
of our public discourse to the radical Left and 1% to the radical

The Left's control over the discourse has caused its ideological
opposite's numbers to increasingly disengage from the state. That
would be bad enough, but the Palestinians' inarguable bad faith and
continued commitment to Israel's destruction have driven the far Left
far off the cliff of reason and rationality.

Unable to convince their fellow Israelis that their two-state pipe
dream will bring peace, the Israeli Left has joined forces with the
international Left in its increasingly shrill campaigns to
delegitimize the country's right to exist and undermine its ability to
defend itself.

This sorry state of affairs is exemplified today by the radical Left's
hysterical response to the Knesset's passage last week of the
anti-boycott law. The comparatively mild law makes it a civil offense
to solicit boycotts against Israel. It bars people engaged in economic
warfare against Israel from getting government benefits and makes them
liable to punitive damages in civil suits.

The Left's hysterical public relations campaign to demonize the law
and its supporters as fascists and seek its overthrow through the
Supreme Court makes clear that the Left will wage war against its own
country in pursuit of its delusion.

But aside from driving the public discourse into the depths of
ideological madness, Israel's embrace of fantasy has made it
impossible for us to conduct a sober-minded discussion of our only
real options. The time has come to debate these two options, choose
one, and move forward.



The imperative of Jewish sovereignty
By MOSHE DANN, The Jerusalem Post
July 4, 2011
Jewish sovereignty speaks to the purpose and promise of the State of
Israel and to everyone who is inspired by that vision.

As the PA/PLO presses for UN recognition of statehood, the question of
who has sovereign rights over Judea and Samaria becomes critical.
Historically and legally part of the Jewish national homeland, it is
also claimed by Palestinians. To whom does this area belong? A
uniquely Jewish definition of sovereignty provides a compelling

Sovereignty, the ability of a government to act independently and in
its own interests, is the essence of statehood. Applying just
authority and institutions to assure the protection and well-being of
its citizens are what conventional statehood is about. A relatively
modern concept associated with 16th-century French philosopher Jean
Bodin, then later with Hobbes, Rousseau, Hegel and others, sovereignty
is the expression of national independence and the right and
responsibility to rule.

The roots of Jewish sovereignty in Eretz Yisrael (the Land of Israel),
however, are not modern. They are biblical, grounded in Jewish thought
and history: the first and second Temples, commonwealths and
civilizations that flourished in the Land of Israel, especially in
Jerusalem, Judea and Samaria.

A thousand years ago, the great biblical and Talmudic commentator
Rashi explained Jewish sovereignty. When the Jewish people conquer,
settle and re-establish political sovereignty in the Land of Israel,
the nations of the world will accuse them of stealing the land. His
reply: Other nations simply occupy their lands; God Himself gave Eretz
Yisrael to the Jewish people as an everlasting inheritance. This
suggests an understanding of Jewish sovereignty that transcends

Sovereignty, like beauty, may be only in the eyes of the beholder, but
it also says something about those who behold it. Unlike that of other
countries and contexts, the concept of Jewish sovereignty in Eretz
Yisrael adds a distinctly intimate dimension – Shechinah, God's
Presence, an eternal bond between the Jewish People and the Land of
Israel, a reverence for The Land itself as sacred.

The State of Israel, therefore, on behalf of the Jewish People, has
the obligation and responsibility to say the truth: Eretz Yisrael,
including Judea and Samaria, legitimately, legally and historically
belongs to the Jewish People; it always has and always will.
Proclaiming Jewish, rather than simply Israeli sovereignty is an
authentic statement of the relationship between the Jewish People and
the Land of Israel.

DECLARING JEWISH sovereignty clearly and unequivocally will correct
the distortion and misunderstanding of those who ignore or deny Jewish
history and international law grounded in the League of Nations and in
its Mandate for Palestine.

The Jewish return to Eretz Yisrael and the establishment of a state,
Israel's towering achievements in science and technology, its
contributions to world civilization and myriad creative innovations
are physical, material representations of a profound spiritual
dimension – the fulfillment of Jewish sovereignty and destiny.

Jewish sovereignty speaks to the purpose and promise of the State of
Israel and to everyone who is inspired by that vision.

It is a statement of affirmation, not apology – of commitment, not
appeasement. It is what true Zionism is all about. Israel's failure to
express Jewish sovereignty over Judea and Samaria weakens its
diplomatic position and strengthens those who contest its claim.
Sovereignty Now.

The writer is a historian, writer and journalist living in Jerusalem.

Women For Israel's Tomorrow  (Women in Green)
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Robin Ticker
Activist emails sent to my list  are L'Ilui Nishmat Yisrael ben David Aryeh ob"m (Izzy - Kaplan)  a great activist and lover of Eretz Yisroel, Am Yisroel and the Torah. Yehi Zichrono Baruch.

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